Gaming Madness Community Forum

I am just curious what you guys think requires more gaming aptitude in using regarding the two more readily available instagib weapons when they are a wop, super shock rifle and redeemer. What I mean by this is generally killing stuff and being able to keep from dying. There are 4 instagib weapons in the game: wand, super shock rifle, redeemer, and ice rune. The essr is not instagib, and you would know this if you were level 260+ and alone. It will not kill the special enemies (satore monster types like queens, titan, skaarj, then there is the vagary, and a few others) that get the huge hp/defense with any efficiency. However, the essr type gun on the churchnew new and churchclassic is instagib, but fires much faster. For the sake of this post, consider the usual super shock.

Positives with super shock:
Infinite ammo
Immediate beam discharge and distance travel
Easy to see at all times

Negatives with super shock:
Semi-slow fire rate
No vampability, leaving one very vulnerable to considerable hp loss
Hard to acquire as wop
Pinpoint accuracy needed
Can only kill one enemy at a time
Clear line of target sight required at all times

Positives with redeemer:
Vampability
Easy to get as wop since every redeemer spawn is a new redeemer type that stacks
Lengthy rate of affecting explosion (2 seconds)
Large blast radius
High power
Self-healing from heal pu
Superforce makes shots close to instantaneous on all but very large maps
Can kill 15+ enemies with one volley (perhaps more, but I haven’t seen more than this)
Can be self-guided with alt-fire around any bend or obstruction

Negatives with redeemer:
Limited ammo replenish rate with resupply
Ammo bonus dependant for its full potential
Leaves one vulnerable between resupply time, or all ammo runs out and gun switches
Horrible visual interruption with blast brightness, affecting user and teammates

Now I won’t give my opinion, though I have one. Keep in mind that as I have witnessed, that a non wop supershock and non wop redeemer tend to do the same amount of damage in the same amount of time of use (one super shock shot to one on-target blast of a redeemer).

However, the real reason I make this poll besides curiousity of what you guys think is that many hate the super shock maps, and at times consider removing all from the server. I would not oppose this by any means. However, if this happens, then I would move for the redeemer spawn points to be recoded so that if you pick one up, toss it, and pick another up later, its the same magic wep or wop type. So many people camp or check the redeemer spots for the wop version every darn map there is one, and this desire is no different than those seeking to use a weapon of strength like a super shock. Yet, the deemer obsessed sometimes condemn those who vote for super shock maps, hmmm.

Anyhoo, which takes more skill to use as a wop considering the factors listed?

Well, apparently people vote, but then don't reply :roll: If either are used correctly, they both require skill to use. With the deemer, the challenge is to not kill yourself due to a detonation within a certain proximity to your location. Not to mention, If you're using the remote flight feature, you need the skills to navigate and find your target. That isn't always easy on a closed, or indoor map. However, the one area of the deemers usage that requires no skill to use, is it's blast radius. As long as you get the deemer to the general area of your target...it will affect said target. In that sense...it's sort of a spam weapon.

With the ssr. I that mostly everything about using it takes skill. You need to have a very accurate aim for the ssr to even do any damage. In addition, you have to take into account that the firing rate of the ssr is not incredibly fast. Many times I've started shooting at a monster with the ssr, and it's like the ssr firing can't keep up with the speed at which the monster is traveling.

My final analysis from my own point of view is that they both are tideous and rather an annoyance. I'd rather use a weapon where the kill rate is fairly consistant. So, unless I absolutely have to, I don't like to use either

i agree with anna. if im on a map that has a SSR i'll probly use it. but i never use the deemer, cuz it knocks others around and it creates some lag if u fire too many off

redeemer is for noobs...

I don't really like either too much. I'll use ssr over deemer though.

I like the idea about deemer spawn campers though. I'll bring that up with Joey.

draegohn wrote:... There are 4 instagib weapons in the game: wand, super shock rifle, redeemer, and ice rune

since when is deemer insta???? it depends on what monsters you have to kill, and even with my 281 and a loaded deemer+10 with all goodies doesnt allways kill with one shot and i remember often beeing last player allive and trying to kill that fkn spiders and need 3-4 deemers till it dies!

btw, wands and supershockrifle arent insta anymore long time! insta means 1 shot kills, thats not true anymore since long time, you often need 2-3 shots with ssr or wand to kill one of the stronger monsters.

draegohn wrote:...
Positives with super shock:
Immediate beam discharge and distance travel
Easy to see at all times

what you mean? looks like you never played with really high ping, firing the ssr, moving 3 meters, turning around and then watching the instabeam leaving "your" wep at the position where you was 3 seconds before?
well, true, easy to see at all time....

draegohn wrote:...(modified)

Negatives with super shock:
1. Semi-slow fire rate
2. No vampability, leaving one very vulnerable to considerable hp loss
3. Can only kill one enemy at a time
4. Clear line of target sight required at all times

1./2./3. wrong :-) depends on the pu-setting :-) you are able to use turbolaser-pu on the ssr (sure, if its a wop)!
means: use turbolaser-pu in first waves = faster firing than ssr-beam, it does enough damage to kill monsters with shockcombo. advantage1: turbolaser-pu in a ssr doesnt need infinity-pu! advantage2: turbolaser vamps. advantage3: use turbolaser-pu + health-pu and you can heal urself with shockball or combo, then switch back to ssr-mode! (advantage4: shockcombo works on "reflecting" monsters)

3. hmm... if i remember right original ssr is designed to go through everything but walls/vehicles etc, so, if 35 players stand in a row and you fire the originial insta, you have a holyshit and wickedsick in 0.1 second!
dunno if this is changed here, however, i´m generally using piercing and penetrating on "beamweps", even if some say it doesnt help, it still looks for me like it does!

4. if i allways stand in front of you pokin in your nose you dont have a clear line to shoot monsters even with rl-spreads :-)
hmm.. well.. forgot this will never happen, maybe thats why you use the "speedhack" :-)

draegohn wrote:... (modified)
Positives with redeemer:
1. Vampability
2. Easy to get as wop since every redeemer spawn is a new redeemer type that stacks
3. Self-healing from heal pu

1. i think you can better vamp with a ssr-wop+turbolaser if you need health than with a deemer...
2. easy? you never played when all the deemercampers are playin :-) and 2 minutes waiting till next appears is wasted time and when you are back godsilly or blaetsian catched it before again and again :-)
3. same like for vamp, its not so much selfhealing, it helps if you have nothing but deemer, but to fill health from 12 to 600 in short time not possible... (no, i dont say now again ssr+turbolaser+healing)
...btw, if you dont want to switch the deemerwop to another wep, especially when you dont have a retention, "bug yourself", use deemer x times in a row in guide-mode and you will be bugged so you cant switch to another weapon. its the only "bug" you can "unbug" by tossing the deemer
and pickin it up again. but be carefull in later waves or when you start recognicing laaags, it can cause you weaponloss or critical error trying to toss and repick!

so far for that. now the reply especially for anna :-)
(omd she types more?)



both weapons needed skill and no skill, its depending on what map these weps are used and how laggy the maps will be in last waves. if it needs 6-10 seconds to reload a deemer cause of laaaaag you will not make much damage. same with ssr, if you aim at monsters which arent at that position anymore -where you shoot at - since 3-4 seconds, then hope you are in a small tunnel and panicshoot to everything coming toward you, you will have more luck with ssr then than with deemer, hmm....depending on what waves or monsters coming.


if these weps are used in maps like the non-pit-gael-version or DM-MR-TheEnd-Final, that long hall where monsters only spawn at one side of the map, you can spam deemers in spawnarea from center, you will not miss much. same with ssr, you only need to stay at center or when you are strong enough in middle of the spawnarea and still turn around in cycles, you will allways hit many things with nearly no aim, just play trigger-happy...

if you use deemer in huge maps superforce is really recommended to have a high killing-rate against mp5, shocks, lasers. more advantage with ssr in huge maps.

i cant answer the poll cause the "depends" option isnt available and i love to play with both weapons, not only because of its easy-kill-when-beeing-lowlevel, or no-inf-needing-ssr-so-i-dont-have-to-care-about-when-noone-is-sharing-pus, its still in "good" maps both weapons sometimes need strategy and skill to win a map. btw, i dunno how many maps i remember when last players allive "only" good weapon was a deemer, w/e reasons are, sometimes its best choice when joining late and catching a lucky deemerwop and sometimes tossed pus and you ca nonly catch a resup..., and then even the players who hate deemers start to say, he/she should use deemer from that save place (if there is one) to finish that wave (or a hard map which needed over an hour to play and now all highlevlers, highskillers, bestweapon-owners are killed)
especially if its in later waves like 17/18, weaponcrate just opened one or two waves before, having best weps now but beeing finished after all get killed pisses many off so even they start to say "use deemer" to win this wave before [egoistic/selfish thinking on: "i" egoistic/selfish thinking off and instead of saying "i" saying] we looooose all our good weps...
and when the one managed it to win the wave they start to complain next wave about that damn deemeruser (knockin them around, "stealing there kills" etc....) :-)

btw knockin around, there is no deemer needed to knock others around, so its just a bad try to make deemer a bad wep... sure, everyone hates beeing knocked around as long sturdys arent available, but this can happen with many other weps too, including ssr!


ats

As long as I'm below level 140 I enjoy both and have a challenging time that involes all my prowess in Joey's server. In fact it's the only time I get that old feeling back, my orginal fascination with this server.

However deemer wops are actually nice supplemental weapons to use as long as the ressupply is capped at a slower rate ( not the 200+ ammo rate).

To answer the q though, The instagib supershock rilfe was designed to show off "skill" and it definitely reflects that on whoever uses it.

in response to amy's thoughtful input, i will give mine back to her well observed information ^,,^

instagib, ok..yes, there is no true "instagib" on this server. hell, i can kill things on wave 1 with one shot from an mp5 however, there is something special about the 4 weapons i mentioned...something that will always disregard monsters levels whatever they are and damage them immensely. the wand, supershock, ice rune and redeemer have this special quality. that is why i put these weapons under the instagib category. a +15 damage essr, laser rifle, ak, lady, combat etc with propulsion will barely make a scratch on these enemies if any level 260+ player shoots at them continually.

even with many low level players alive, it will still take 1-2 shots from super shock or deemers to kill a queen or titan, while an mp5 seems to take them down in less time..odd, but playing alone as high level it still takes the same amount of shots. this is hard to explain, but it is something i have experienced time and time again

and yes, laggy super shock use makes for bad discharge and aim D:

thank you for reminding me about the shock rifle powerups that can be put on super shock and wand! yes, it is true they can be applied, however, it is a waste of space, but the shock combo will heal and turbo laser and such will vamp. however, one runs the risk of making zero damage due to monsters' perfect reflection they can have. if monster level is exceedingly high, than vamp will be extremely minimal :/ but this would apply to skill if one applies these for self-healing.

i still really want to know what the special quality/power/setting might be for these guns and the ice rune artifact. it cannot be just some base damage, for there are so many times other weapons will kill the same things in less time when monster levels are low or medium. yet when monser levels are what they are when i play alone, nothing else can kill monsters but vorpal, yet a super shock with +7 damage pus and propulsion one-hit kill 95% of everything, and a reedeemer will kill 95% of anything in blast radius with two missles released

redeemers piss me off, to be honest. but only because of the users who have 3 max stock always letting them off and the constant blindness caused from the blasts. and also..this is probably because i have a crap vid card, but much redeemer use lags me horribly. and damnit, i really hate deemer use on confined maps like trainingday x-2 and such. i know where i want to shove deemer missles on those who keep spamming them in such confied places to lag one to near death >,,<

as for penetration, i have not used it much on supershock to see if it truly can go through many enemies, however i have seen it work on titan and queen waves with laser rifle, mp5, mini, and turbo laser. if it works on the latter, then i assume it can work on other shock varities with primary fire.

and right you are about "easy" actually being difficult to get wop with many deemer campers playing. however, i am seeing 2-3 people using wop deemers at times on maps besides warpit, so this is why i say it is easy to get.

anyhow, good point, miss squirrelly. your next assignment is to find out the mysterious settings that make these weapons "instagib." it certainly has to be more than super high base damage, especially comparing high monster level fighting with wop supershock versus wop essr (crate variety that vamps).

ssr and wand insta. It depends on what u put on it.

sometimes i just want to blow stuff up thats why i like the deemr. Less stress on the brain and its a challenge to stay alive. I have to watch my health closely. Yes im a newb deeemereererer whore. Can't help it. It's like having a really hot chick naked in front of you. You have to take it !!!!!!