Suggestions for the Server...

[nG.QuaKe*]

Hey everyone, Quake here.

I figured since I haven't seen much of anything in regards to removal or implentation of ideas/certain items in-game, I just wanted to compile of list of things that I believe would be suitable for the server. I'd love to hear some input with positive or negative constructive criticism about the following ideas; also, it'd be good to hear some others.

First, some things really, really just need to be eliminated. And I believe this starts with the powerups. I've gone through Paintball's guide to make sure I'm not missing anything (and in fact, it needs to be updated with a few, such as PullForward, Reflective RL, and others.) But after a pretty consistent month of playing this server, I've realized what PU's are good, and what PU's, well, seem to have no place at all. Here are the ones I think need to be pulled, in order of most important to least.

MAGIC PU: SERIOUSLY, GET THIS censored OUT OF HERE. This thing is just, well, . I have used it a few times after being told that the PU drop rate with it on is much lower, and this is indeed correct. Multiple players were complaining with comments such as "WHERE ARE THE censored PUS???" and etc. This thing has no place in the server and censored the team aspect up. I see no reason to leave this in. At all. Priority (out of 5 )

FIRE ROCKET: This thing is also a bitch, and I learned it today. Quite simply, put this sucker on your RL and it burns. Everything. (in the vicinity, at least.) Cool, right? Problem is, you lag. Oh jesus CHRIST, do you lag. Fire a few of the bullets then run through the ground you've managed to set ablaze. You'll feel like your computer is mired in sludge, and while in the map Blackhawk with giblet, he told me that he lags as well. It's not just you, so take the bullshit off. Anything that causes extreme lag like this needs to be booted. Priority:

KNOCKBACK: This one really has no use. You hit people without sturdies on a map with edges that you can fall to your death on, and you're pissing people off. The monsters are knocked further away, making it harder for YOU to hit them, limiting your XP. Stupid, really. Priority:

STURDY, NULL ENTROPY, REFLECTION SHIELD, VORTEX SHIELD, SUPER JUMP, PULL FORWARD, BIO WEB, DISRUPTOR, FORCE, FREEZE, RL SEEKER, SHIELDED REDEEMER, PIERCING At this point, the priority for the rest of these is lower; these just don't ever seem to be used. In the case of sturdy, iron sturdy replaces it. Reflection shield seems to do nothing. Vortex really doesn't work well at all. I still get sucked into them. Bio Web's attack is useless. Disruptor is garbage. Force 5's are common enough where Forces are only thrown right away. Shielded redeemer doesn't do its job; mine still get shot down. And piercing only works against players -- therefore it's CONFIRMED useless! Rid of them! Priority:

Also, with the PU's, this'll cause less of that censored "WHY'D YOU THROW ALL THESE PU'S ON ME? NOW I HAVE TO TAKE A WHOLE censored WAVE TO GET RID OF THEM" problem I've had more than once.

Secondly, some of these weapons need to go. And by that, I mean removed from the weapons crate to make it a little less awful to go through when giving people other decent weps! I would have said the Particle Gun, but I finally saw this used well, so it stays. But the Cutter Rifle, Avril, and Grenade Launcher really need to make an exit. Especially the Cutter Rifle...god, what a piece of shit.

Thirdly, a few artifacts really don't need to be around. The teleporter comes to mind right away.

Fourth, I believe there need to be a few more ways to earn XP for mission or teamwork-based objectives. Doing things such as throwing PU's to other people (XP value based on the PU's usefullness, so people don't get XP for throwing shit PU's), sharing weapons with others, opening crates or chests, or healing with a non-medic gun...and speaking of the medic gun...

Fifth, the prerequisites for the medic gun are disasterously high. Folks, this is ridiculous. The medic gun is mainly a gun used by lower-level players to get XP while also helping the team by healing our big guns in order to stay alive. Too bad you can't get this medic gun until you have damage bonus and damage reductions of 400 apiece! Come on, this is just way too high. This needs to be scaled back immensely, and the damage bonus prerequisite needs to go. Perhaps 100 DR.

Sixth, some of these trash maps have to be taken off the rotation. Now my opinion of a "trash map" may be different from most of you, since I like the stock maps where all the monsters aren't right in front of you, but some of these "bug hunt" maps suck. I have actually taken up a list on my iPhone 4 (yes, I'm a nerd) of the good and ridiculously bad maps on our rotation. Maps that aren't played clutter this sucker up.

Seventh, some of our vets really need to be more helpful. A lot of them, when dealt with a problem, really do seem to get mad at a person instead of attempting to comprehensively help them solve the issue. Just today, someone was being yelled at for having caps lock. People threatened to kick and said it's happened before, and you have your usual disparaging comments. But no one had thought of asking if perhaps he should turn his resolution up so that all the letters on the screen aren't caps. Sometimes people can't tell these things...and he may next game be the guy that gets that Rejuv Flak we all want!

Eighth, the retention issue with the MP5 needs to be resolved. I've seen that message this whole time.

This is all I've got so far, but I'll be editing this post as I see fit. Despite this, I still think this server censored KICKS ASS. And I know that'll be . censored it. That too.

EDIT 1: Added MP5 retention problem.

[ZombieSlayer]

First off, we really do appreciate you taking the time to voice your opinions Having said that, it might not seem that way with the reply I'm about to post I'm not dismissing your ideas, they will all be brought up with the code team if/when Joey has the time to get back to working on the 180 patch.


Yes the pu guide needs updating. If Joey ever has the time to finish up the v_180 patch we will update the pu list and some other guides.

Magic pu isn't working as intended but we're stuck with it for now.

Yep fire rocket lags all non quad core cpus like crazy. I no longer lag when fire rocket is used since upgrading to a quad core. It's a known issue and again we're stuck with it for now.

You need to read more player guides to understand why knockback is very usefull in some cases.

Again, read the player guides. Sturdy is very handy, as are null entropy, pull forwards, force, freeze, and piercing (is not useless). Reflection shield is quite usefull if you're the only one alive and facing all of those gold dragons and their turbo lasers. Vortex shield works (most of the time) to reduce the pull of a vortex allowing you to get away. Super jump, never used it but others like to. Bio web is a bit pathetic. Disrupter works fine if you understand how it works. Main problem is that the monsters always die before the pu takes affect. RL seeker is pointless but we're stuck with it. Shielded redeemer works for redeemer wops.

Learn to not run in and pick up every damn pu you see :p If someone dumps them on you ... dump them on the ground.

The less desireable weapons are in the game and the crate so not every weapon you get is a pwnage weapon. This won't be changed. Learn to play with less than 10x flack and rl

The teleporter is quite useful if you're the only one alive and need to get away. Just activate it and viola you are typically moved to a less hostile enviroment to recover Sometimes though it puts you in a worse spot :D

Exp is gained from killing monsters, healing teammates, and winning the round. Other ideas have been considered, and I think some were being developed with the 180 patch but I can't recall

Medic gun isn't ment for the newbs to use. You're supposed to have some experience in the game before you can become an exp funnel.

Yea some of the new maps are way to large and need to be scaled down or removed. Having a bunch of maps doesn't clutter up anything but the vote menu. It doesn't make much differenc since most of you insist on playing the same 2 dozen maps over and over and over again :roll:

It could also be argued that most of the newbs are clueless and thickheaded. They should all read the forums to actually understand how to play. However the vets should also be a little more curteous but if your skin is that thin then gtfo :D

Can't fix mP5 without completely re-writing the code. Even then it won't work as well as we want. This is due to it being a "mod". All mods actually conflict with UT's core code. Most of the conflicts are never noticed by players though. The only way to make mods not conflict is to buy a license from EA for $20K so we can get the full unlocked source code and the ability to actually modify the source code.

[[iX]AnnaBeaver]

I use Null Entropy, On occassion I use knockback but I try to use it later on in waves to make sure I'm not knocking other players. I do use the Shielded deemer pu and it is a must have if your only WOP is a deemer. Some people prefer to use sturdy versus iron sturdy. Don't ask me why...they just do. Vortex shield I use on occassion as well. It all depends on who is playing and if we can get the vortex luci killed fast enough. Alot of people use the pull forward because it helps them to get pu's.

I never use the magic pu, and I don't ever recall it working for me. But as Zombie stated, currently we are stuck with it.

Fire rockets lagged me out with a single core processor and lag me out with a dual core processor. Most of the time people don't even touch it unless they have nothing else to use. So, it's wise to help the people who are asking for RL pu's such as flare and spread.

Some of the pu's are used much less often than others but I do see the majority of them used at one point or another. If we take a ton of them out, then players will complain that there isn't enough variation. So, in my opinion it's better to have to many, than not enough.


And I really do have to agree with Zombie that new players should read the WOP invasion players guide. It has really helpful info about weapons and PU's, strategies and tips.

[KNC]

You need to read more player guides to understand why knockback is very usefull in some cases.

Yep, Knockback as well as Propulsion allows you to kick titans through the air, throwing them on other players thus effectively killing them. I experienced this over 5 times myself already and that being said while I don't spend all that much time on the server. Also not including the several cases where I was aware of some junky using Propulsion/Knockback to send titans through space, and where I always kept an eye of them which allowed me to avoid certain death sometimes.
Hell there have been rounds where 100%! of my deaths came from dozens ppl sending titans to my head! Or rounds where I was the strongest player sort of protecting everyone, some Propulsion/Knockback dude just sended two titans on my head in one round, and guess how long it took before the game was lost (not a darn single minute)

Seriously now, I do know the advantages of Knockback/Propulsion and I'm not saying to take them out. But still at least do something against this. Maybe make titans shot by Propulsion/Knockback, harmless to on head landings. Make the Titanium Alloy Head PU that prevents you from getting killed by titan stomps: Just do anything against this...
Currently I'm just not arse enough to use them, because in my opinion it's not exactly the teamplayer PU. It's the PU I'd probably use if I don't care about the team and just want that bit of extra power.


Also even if I postponed my work on the PU's I want to design myself, I'll eventually get back to it. As soon as I get a WOP copy running on my game to test them out that is...

[nG.QuaKe*]

Yep fire rocket lags all non quad core cpus like crazy. I no longer lag when fire rocket is used since upgrading to a quad core. It's a known issue and again we're stuck with it for now.

Wish I had a Quad Core...can't afford that shit

You need to read more player guides to understand why knockback is very usefull in some cases.

Mind me asking how it's useful? I've read the guides, and I still really don't see the light. Explanation would be definitely helpful though!!

Again, read the player guides. Sturdy is very handy, as are null entropy, pull forwards, force, freeze, and piercing (is not useless).

I agree I went haywire by suggesting all of those; they definitely have uses, but just not me! And regarding piercing, Paintball himself said piercing only works on players, so any game PvE (as invasion is) renders it useless. Again, if I'm wrong, I'd love to be clear on the matter!

Reflection shield is quite usefull if you're the only one alive and facing all of those gold dragons and their turbo lasers. Vortex shield works (most of the time) to reduce the pull of a vortex allowing you to get away. Super jump, never used it but others like to. Bio web is a bit pathetic. Disrupter works fine if you understand how it works. Main problem is that the monsters always die before the pu takes affect. RL seeker is pointless but we're stuck with it. Shielded redeemer works for redeemer wops.

Ok, Reflection...how many do you need on it to actually take effect? Vortex -- sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Frustrating, but hey. Super Jump -- I can see the use. Bio Web does need to go. Disruptor -- could you explain this one to me too? I just can't grasp the damn thing. And shielded redeemer -- I had one on my deemer a day ago, and the damn nalis with their laser rifles shot that shit down before I could say "YEEHAW!"

Learn to not run in and pick up every damn pu you see :p If someone dumps them on you ... dump them on the ground.

Easier said than done, you bastard!

The less desireable weapons are in the game and the crate so not every weapon you get is a pwnage weapon. This won't be changed. Learn to play with less than 10x flack and rl

If I must...

The teleporter is quite useful if you're the only one alive and need to get away. Just activate it and viola you are typically moved to a less hostile enviroment to recover Sometimes though it puts you in a worse spot :D

And that's why I never use it, and have never seen anyone else!

It could also be argued that most of the newbs are clueless and thickheaded. They should all read the forums to actually understand how to play. However the vets should also be a little more curteous but if your skin is that thin then gtfo :D

Making the forums more helpful would be a huge step here.

Can't fix mP5 without completely re-writing the code. Even then it won't work as well as we want. This is due to it being a "mod". All mods actually conflict with UT's core code. Most of the conflicts are never noticed by players though. The only way to make mods not conflict is to buy a license from EA for $20K so we can get the full unlocked source code and the ability to actually modify the source code.

Totally understand here.

Zombie, thanks for the detailed response!!

[nG.QuaKe*]

You need to read more player guides to understand why knockback is very usefull in some cases.

Yep, Knockback as well as Propulsion allows you to kick titans through the air, throwing them on other players thus effectively killing them. I experienced this over 5 times myself already and that being said while I don't spend all that much time on the server. Also not including the several cases where I was aware of some junky using Propulsion/Knockback to send titans through space, and where I always kept an eye of them which allowed me to avoid certain death sometimes.
Hell there have been rounds where 100%! of my deaths came from dozens ppl sending titans to my head! Or rounds where I was the strongest player sort of protecting everyone, some Propulsion/Knockback dude just sended two titans on my head in one round, and guess how long it took before the game was lost (not a darn single minute)

Seriously now, I do know the advantages of Knockback/Propulsion and I'm not saying to take them out. But still at least do something against this. Maybe make titans shot by Propulsion/Knockback, harmless to on head landings. Make the Titanium Alloy Head PU that prevents you from getting killed by titan stomps: Just do anything against this...
Currently I'm just not arse enough to use them, because in my opinion it's not exactly the teamplayer PU. It's the PU I'd probably use if I don't care about the team and just want that bit of extra power.


Also even if I postponed my work on the PU's I want to design myself, I'll eventually get back to it. As soon as I get a WOP copy running on my game to test them out that is...

Hear, hear KNC. That Titanium Alloy Head PU needs to be in development...NOW!!!

[KNC]

Hear, hear KNC. That Titanium Alloy Head PU needs to be in development...NOW!!!

Also it makes your head shine silver and totally CAN'T be used together with Knockback or Propulsion for that matter.

Also on a side note: Propulsion/Stone/Null Entropy/Freezing/Knockback all somehow enhance damage by a certain factor. Which I don't know though, heard people speculating a lot about it but never heard specific numbers.

[Mobster]

There is really no need for updating the guides on the forum now. Cause if/when Patch 180 comes out the experience on the Invasion Server will be different, then the guides will have to be updated again to accommodate the new changes. But I do agree the guides are old. The veterans have been waiting (still waiting) years for this patch to start playing UT a lot more, and are most likely waiting for a patch, to update the guides and such.

Anyways to the Forums glad to see new people going on here, and getting people talking.

[ZombieSlayer]

reflection pus reflect 10% per pu of damage done by shock rifles, turbo lasers, and green lasers. They have no effect on wand damage. You can put 7 reflections on your gun for 70% reduction in damage from the previously mentioned weapons.

Knockback pushes monsters away from you (which can be very handy sometimes), and adds a bit of damage. I lost my chart with the exact effects pus have so I can't say how much.

Piercing adds extra damage but that's it. In the 180 patch it goes through soft targets (any non metallic looking monster, the ufo's, and spider mines aren't affected).

Propulsion is like knockback but stronger in both the "push" and the extra damage.

3 single force pu's stack with a force 5 and that combo can be used with knockback, null entropy, propulsion, freeze, and stone (which isn't working properly). This combo is almost as good as super force + the others, and since you can't equip super forece and null entropy it would be silly to remove thm.

Disruptor pu is a pu for the lightning gun. With this pu there is a chance to turn the monster you are shooting into a "pet" that fights for you and the team. However everyone just keeps shooting the poor monsters and they never notice that the monster has changed his ways and is trying to repent So then they claim that disruptor pu doesn't work :D

Once you get past level 250 playing with non 10X wops isn't as hard (it's really not that hard at lower levels either once you have a good understanding of pu combo's)

[crayola]

Yeah what ever zombie says was right and also just wanted to add
Yeah Null can add with superforce, its super great on MP5 and Combat and anything, one of best pus IMOP and adds 5% damage per each Null (per SHowitemsdescription bind)
And adds 15% damage (per each max 3) plus 5 Rage's and 10 Damages thats "Max Damage"
haha though need slots, though I have not used "5Rage+10DB+3NULL.
Sometimes I might use IceRune and rage doesnt't help .
Others like stone and freeze dont says it adds any damage (per PU per "showitemsdescriptions bind")

And Propulsion is Super PU for mp5 (at times) also with ESSR, WAND, SSR and someitmes if you can reload pus quickly (to see what is better at certain times and/or certain waves)

And the single Force ads with Force5 "with" Propulsion, what makes MP5 best is it had had infinite combinations and reloading in waves that makes it the most usefull gun, it and or and many circumstances add with VORPAL!? you will butter through mobs and see yourself with highscore, but u can put vorpal if u sense u might be last or if the mobs are harder, I'd usualy put wave 1-7 if level high or if not then 8-20 as example cus each vorp kill give 1 point only

Propulsion and superforce with pullforward and others certain match dont go,
PUllforward with Superforce and propulsion's with Force 5 and singles Force but better if have more slots I do propulsion and Force 5, but with singles added, need more slots tought rarely do that with singles just Pro and Force5 few time - see what works with the waves and slots and personal circumstances.

(combinations with thes certain pus and that can only add with what)
-Propulsion goes with Force5 or +single force's (prop alone or with only F5) most waves ok
-Pullforward goes with Superforce (ok to great combo) depend waves
-knockback goes Superforce (though almost practicaly rarely) all waves
-Nullentropy goes with Superforce (great combo)

(but for better effect put D5 or D10, pens, peirces poisens 5's and more, 2insagib etc) change instagibs when not needed .. needed wave 7 and 17 + sometimes or rarely wave (1-7) but there somehwat weaker or slower just have to move faster or better wep or mp5 -the early waves I mean and can apply to later waves as well to)

ETC's
-Stone and Freeze etc with SF as they dont go with Propulsion

Though NULL is superb Null means "none" and entrpoy means "none activiity" or somthing
NULL is super great add with damages, D10 peircing, penetrate vorp abd some etc's

Theres infinite combinations with the some of the 40 pus and with the guns
with mobs, with waves, with "constant reloading" , with infinite aspects
of which I might be more, as u said "comprehensively " or thoroughly mention in later, as of now im so preoccupied also can't even have correct grammer and spelling and busy with things

Though most of what you say can be true but I might get more into that later and almost 95% if not more of what zombieslayer said was true can't barely concentrate grr Lol
and mouse gone haywire will continue soon as of right now I can't be to clear as im sorta "you know what lmao"

Though its great to hear your input or input as usual
as a new comer I do understand some of what your say were true just somethings can or cannot be help at this time ot later.
Bah forgot what i was about to say lmao yeah might add more as said or edit.
So smashed im gonna edit this or add alot
or more later my mouse and things mess

Also was mention about the combinations with Prop etc (as i was searching or knew before yes many use them propl or what not many times)

http://www.gamingmadness.org/forum/view ... 0&start=28
(under crayola second post i was saying which weps goes better wiiht what pus or the "combinations")

http://www.gamingmadness.org/forum/view ... ullforward
(and this one just related to Pullforward)