super hard new difficulty or not?...what should be known

Do you know some good strategies to help your fellow team mates do better in game? Help us out. Post some in here.

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draegohn
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super hard new difficulty or not?...what should be known

Post by draegohn » Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:06 pm

much can be said and done to overcome the horrid situation of near impossible monsters when low levels die off. first and foremost, let us deal with what happens when one is in that situation.

have a freaking vorpal power up on hand. now, know that vorpal works on one projectile, meaning, for instance one of the flak bits or one shot of the shock rifle. weapons that spurt out many projectile at rapid fire do the best, for the 1% vorpal chance increases since each projectile counts as its each unit. this is why it is so nice to use weapons like combat shotgun (primary fire best), minigun, mini ssr, mp5 and regular flak, and razor bomb primary fire if one depends on vorpal effects. best vorpal gun is combat shotgun, and i use primary fire because vorpal and pullforwards/propulsion kick in so nicely in wave 1-16. i switch to alternate fire as i play through the waves when i come across the nonvampable type enemies....and why i kick ass with gun always even with someone else usng the combat too but lacking the knowledge and/or strategy to get maximum effect fromm this gun :P

hiding in strategic locations of corners or heights and being very cautious is a must if it possible to do. if you try to jump and dodge around many turbo laser dragons, i am sorry, noone can avoid them very long. back into doorways, inlets, etc where you can shoot to enemies following you, watch radar to see enemies and where they are realtive to you in case other groups may flank you from the other side. if your gun is strong , has splash damage or has bouncy projectiles, aim for the ground where the door/passage leads to you. if you don't have such a weapon type, there is less potential to strive unless it is the combat shotgun, where you just aim the alt fire death mist in the path enemies will be rounding the corner to get to you.

in the near hopeless situation, keep mindful of health and how well you seem to vamp off enemies you know to be vampable. if you aren't getting much return, get the heck to a safer spot. even with vampirism level 10 and combat shotgun, i have had moments this past weekend where that barely vamps off vagaries. self healing will do better.

anyhow, as for the topic and playing much this weekend, people choose maps lately now where there are good hide spots, and if low levels stay alive, especially those level 50 or below, it can be an easy as heck map. i suppose now i give my full support to this change of diffculty.

now as for strategy to avoid the hell situation, giving low levels all kinds of good stuff is relatively pointless since they will die so quick if they try to fight, but it never hurts to give them something that they can spay and pray with and possible accumulate some experience. essentially, if you higher levels (above 150) want to win a map, you should make the low levels stow away in a bunker or nook, and convince them their role in winning and getting the 1000 points. protecting them can help, and the best to do this are mid-high level players like those 150-180. those dedicated to the medic way would do their part best to remain in these key positions to heal those in need. good experience in your method, as amy has told me numerically on some maps..it is impressive how much max medic role can get on some maps.

setting up bunkers and walls are important to do the moment you get an artifact to do so. attempt to place them at key points that can protect with map features that can't be destroyes like walls and pillars, or simply block off entry ways for enemies to make a spot more fortified. low levels need to be inside bunkers, but bthey must e careful not to shoot guns that can splash or reflect projectiles back if they have no heal.

you then must consider the powerhouse players of the map. you will know who these people are by being in score as number 1 and 2 often. like in a mmorpg, these players are the very aggressive ones who try to kill *everything* and set themselves up to take enemy fire in the desire to bring the most damage to the foe in as little time as possible. these people include cadmium, crayola, airrman, oznog, shakalaka, reyalp, border, cha-chi, guardian, and others i may not recall now. and yes, me! we are the "tanks" of the monster madness server. giving a high level a globe (useless as hell to just about any low level, period) to one could be the act that saves the map later one. giving ice rune can be the same, for this artifact only can be truly made use of by someone with maxed adrenaline and adrenal surge 2; 100 adr and no adr skill makes it last 6 seconds or so, regardless of the enemy horde around, which will likely kill the low level user before the adr runs out!

now, i had a little debate with someone on a map today when i said that truly, if someone wants the map to be won, other players wishing to win badly should ask these tanks if they have necessary powerups like instagib shields, damage 5's, protection 5's, titan rock shields, etc..the stuff to toughen the skin better. it may even be wise to offer a very good summoned weapon to such a player who is still using an mp5 or bio rifle or the like than hoard it for oneself and not be able to use it much.

i was met with much objection, criticism, and anger by a fellow player as i told my view of the tanks here, thinking i was speaking with sole ego so large, everyone should provide for me. she doesn't like me, but thats another thing altogether <,,< anyhow, us players know enemy selection strategy well, we are the ones who go after redeemer enemies, lucifers, wands, laser rifle enemies, and try to destroy nukes even if it puts us at risk to get to them. we take out the enemy hardhotters to make casualties as few as possible. anyhow, i will go after almost every wand, regardless whether i have instagib shield on or not. the map today, i had no such shield and 3 wands appeared wave 12. people were getting picked off fast and i wanted to kill them in lime arena map (very open to beam hits) so i avoided all enemies and went for the wands. i got one, went to another, resurrected, went back to kill it, a third nearby got me imemdiately after i got its wand brother! i died and lost good artifacts i was saving for later use(artifact use is important in certain times, a strategy section to come later). if i had even one insta shield, we would not have waited 15 mins for darfyddi (i believe it was him) to use mp5 fire mine from the top. but he did it eventually and was proud of his effort :} and in the end, map was won.

seriously, teamwork goes both ways..nurturing the weaker, lower level people and setting up the tanks to do what they do best. i know so many criticize the enemy hogs who kill "your kills", but we just do what we do. many a time i save someone from 12 army guys surrounding them, and with my combat shotgun, quickly run next to them and aim to ground to heal them and myself, then move on. medic and tank together..good combo, baby!

so yes, enemy selection is important. if you can fight a wand, fight it. if you feel you can kill a deemer-spamming SOB, do it! if you see a nuke smith/army guy prancing about, go for that jerk so you can get him out and the nuke he uses.

so yes, this is my strategy post on the "harder" new setting for the server. but in all, it is difficult to coordinate anything, especially low levels wanting to go and kill like the tanks they see get the glory. admittably, past level 25, there is no way i am hiding unless things are near hopeless for the whole team...it is not fun or ever has for me if i knew i could do something. regardless, this is how to succeed now. also, my biggest fault while playing is not asking often for powerups i need..for the pride in me wants to get them on my own and not bother anybody else to find me or look out. but still, proper communciation is a must with this situation now.

in the end, us real high levels aren't going to stop playing to keep average enemy level down, and lower levels can't pull a map on their own. we also can't vote for every mixer, bunker007 or complex007..etc etc map where it is either so big enemies are very spread out and easier to run from or kill, or there is a near 100% protection rate (except nukes) cage to hide in :P

this new difficulty and these maps with handicaps are adding a further increase to overplayed maps. i am here for fun and variety, not for the same thing again and again and again and *flops and spazzes!* @,,@

anyways, this is all i have perceived and suggest as strategy after this weekend's experience of the new difficulty change. may we kill better together! :}

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Post by TheGuardian » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:51 am

I completely agree with your teamwork strategies, Drea.

I played on Curse the other day and actually felt a sense of community during the map. While I was running around, doing my whole "open a can of whoop ass" thing, I collected whatever pu's that I could.
At the end of each wave, I would use what I needed and take the rest back to the flak spawn under the stairs where many lower level players were hiding.
In addition, any time I came across a retention, infinite, or healing pu, I immediately took it back to the stairs and tossed it to them.

I also made sure to offer to pass out/jug any decent weapons I had (whether power or not).

I kept an eye on my radar and whenever I saw that there were a lot of enemies by that area, I rushed in to help clear them out. I also made sure to make myself their first line of defense if a monster with a wand, laser rifle, nuke, or vortex spawned nearby. Sure it would be good xp for the lower levels, but nobody will win if they're all dead.

I have a bad problem with a bug/my connection and when it got to the point that I couldn't see my weapons/monsters, I resorted to staying under those stairs and using my weapon to heal those within. Even though I was majorly handicapped, I still knew that I could be of some use to the people who could see what they were doing.

Now some maps aren't as privileged with such a good hiding spot, and that's where smart use of shields and bunkers comes into play. Glass shields need to be used to block off entrances to protected areas that people might not be keeping an eye on. If a bunch of lower level players are hiding in a place with two entrances, and are only watching one, the first wand to walk through the back door is like R Kelly at the playground.

Defense walls should obviously be used to cover the main entrances to hiding areas as their window will still allow those inside to offer some cover fire to people outside.

Be careful with the placement of walls and shields though. While it is important to protect these sensitive areas, we don't want to trap people inside, or keep people on the outside from reaching those within.

Bunkers are going to be most helpful in a map where there is no hiding spot, or the main hiding spot is too cramped. I don't know the details, but I still feel like I take damage inside those things, so I get the impression that they need to be set up against as many walls as possible. Ideally, the bunker should be set up in a corner, slightly away from the wall behind it. This way, people can hide inside the bunker, and also use the small cavity behind it for cover.

I feel like it should be an obligation of the higher level players like myself (coming up on 200, now) to take a role of "protector" rather than "ass kicker." We all know that the high level players can dish out damage and take a heavy beating, so I think we need to be using these abilities to help out those who are struggling. In doing so, we not only create more people to take this role, but more lower level players who are alive means an easier map for all of us.

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Re: super hard new difficulty or not?...what should be known

Post by |bah|Ariel » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:15 am

draegohn wrote:
now as for strategy to avoid the hell situation, giving low levels all kinds of good stuff is relatively pointless since they will die so quick if they try to fight, but it never hurts to give them something that they can spay and pray with and possible accumulate some experience. essentially, if you higher levels (above 150) want to win a map, you should make the low levels stow away in a bunker or nook, and convince them their role in winning and getting the 1000 points. protecting them can help, and the best to do this are mid-high level players like those 150-180. those dedicated to the medic way would do their part best to remain in these key positions to heal those in need. good experience in your method, as amy has told me numerically on some maps..it is impressive how much max medic role can get on some maps.

:}
The words i bolded is the thing that makes me start to wonder if the server is for everyone.

What fun is it for a low level player to come in and just wait for an hour, only to find himself some maps later att level 100 without any playing experience.

I know there is a thin line between too easy and too hard.

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Re: super hard new difficulty or not?...what should be known

Post by Viper » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:10 am

|bah|Ariel wrote:
draegohn wrote:
now as for strategy to avoid the hell situation, giving low levels all kinds of good stuff is relatively pointless since they will die so quick if they try to fight, but it never hurts to give them something that they can spay and pray with and possible accumulate some experience. essentially, if you higher levels (above 150) want to win a map, you should make the low levels stow away in a bunker or nook, and convince them their role in winning and getting the 1000 points. protecting them can help, and the best to do this are mid-high level players like those 150-180. those dedicated to the medic way would do their part best to remain in these key positions to heal those in need. good experience in your method, as amy has told me numerically on some maps..it is impressive how much max medic role can get on some maps.

:}
The words i bolded is the thing that makes me start to wonder if the server is for everyone.

What fun is it for a low level player to come in and just wait for an hour, only to find himself some maps later att level 100 without any playing experience.

I know there is a thin line between too easy and too hard.
I think Draegohn was referring more to in later waves for this bit of info, not the first 5-10 waves where everyone can have fun blowing stuff away. The only time a player under 100, or 150 for that matter, has a chance to survive beyond wave 15, is if their weapon is omnipotent and well protective. Otherwise, no amount of damage reduction or health bonus is gonna matter when you can't max either because you lack the levels of experience to dedicate those points to such.

No one likes getting their kills stolen, but these level 220+ badasses are out looking for artifacts and certain powerups when they're running around killing everything in sight, it's not a deliberate act of theft. I fall in that 150-180 level range, and when the waves are young, you'll bet my happy ass is running around alone getting the kills I need to be able to survive and possibly make a difference for when waves 15-20 come around. It's all on how you play it, and every game anyone has ever played requires a bit of a learning curve to get the hang of it.

Let that humble us all, we all have to start off at the bottom at some point. Both in level, and in game experience. Draegohn, see ya in game some time. I'll keep an extra set of shields for you, and all the other "Tanks" out there who make it possible for us to win maps to begin with.
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Post by TheMadDJ » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:03 am

Well, I'm 152-154, and provided I don't run into the middle of big groups in the late stages of the round, I'm ok..

Only thing I'd say about the lower levels is that it's better to pick up what the pros load up on or ask for, and to listen to the way the game pans out before trying to nail the high score. I personally realize I haven't got a hope in hell to outscore people, godlike weapon or not d=P
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Post by draegohn » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:24 pm

ooh, i see new replies!

ariel, it is meant for everyone i would say, but what i meant with what you bolded there was that to keep monsters truly manageable, the players >100 really should just hide and be protected as best as possible. it is not until level 70 (with correct stats setup) that any player can be effective and properly contribute anything to the fighting. until then it is just quick deaths...and i know this now having been low level 3 times here already. so even if monster levels are rather low, a low level's db and dr do next to nothing on later waves unless they get lucky with a super weapon or are present on a super shock rifle map.

by the way, if you don't know, there monster levels in the past week went from like .6 then to .55, and now it was lowered yet again to .50. i thought .55 was fine, even if rather impossibly tough at times (in a general view, since it can still be damn hard now with surviving high levels).

while i strive for the instagib shields, always craving 2 and will always have two on even a wop +zero if i can, i am content if i can have one at least and a pro5. this is not selfishness, because anyone who has ever noticed when i play, that the damn wands focus on me no matter who else is closer if there are no walls or barriers between me and the wand. joey codes certain monsters to spawn near and go after the closest living highest level or lowest level in range, for those who do not know this. anyways, this is fine, as i have stated many times, i see it as high level responsibility to draw their attention and try to kill them before they have a chance to go for lower level players and thus causing all monsters levels to raise if they kill the lowest level alive. but damn, without a pro5 or instagib pu on, i find myself resurrecting before i know there even was a wand x..x

hehe, and thanks viper, for the offer of goodies ^,,^ the artifact i actually want most these days is the globe, because i tend to always save the globe for possible horrible situations that can happen. i normaly find myself needing to use it wave 18 or 19, when it seems just about everyone is about to die. i can't tell you how many times i used that to pull of a wave-save...even in the past week alone it has saved about 6 maps from sad endings. when someone opens the artifacts chest and offers things, i ask for that. if they ask if i need anything else, i will ask for either ice rune or double damage since i know many lust for the triple damages and lightning rod :P so i just take the things i know can save a map from a worst case scenario

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Post by MasterOfNone » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:44 pm

im totally not reading all of that post..A.D.D. FTW

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Post by Ortega » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:12 am

In the theory of having the bew players stay back and hide it makes life easier yes, yes. Because they get 1000 xp. But they can't get that Xp if we don't win and they can't get that if they try because they will die to easy. But I would rather lose the map then sit in a corner. Just my Opinion.
Later all!

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Post by MasterOfNone » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:16 pm

Ortega wrote:In the theory of having the bew players stay back and hide it makes life easier yes, yes. Because they get 1000 xp. But they can't get that Xp if we don't win and they can't get that if they try because they will die to easy. But I would rather lose the map then sit in a corner. Just my Opinion.
word...i think encouraging them not to play doesnt really make them work for their free 1000 xp. what is a player to do if everyone else levels them up instead of them doing it themselves. you learn a lot about the game PLAYING it. not sitting in a corner and waiting for some high level player to make ends meet for you.

on a side note-i have noticed the difficulty difference, but i must say..it makes very little to no diff. in this particular gamestyle. this game has always been about whats the best gun/pickup. i think it will always be that way. for instance, im only level 190, but i was able to beat wave 20 by myself with the right gun and the right pus. i dont think the difficulty rating is enough to really worry about or even re-strategize for...just my .02 :)

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