PU s That Cause Lag
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PU s That Cause Lag
Today i was playing a map when 2 vet players insisted a low lvl stop using proxy mines for mp-5.I ask if pu was allowed and 2 lvl 280+ players insisted its a big problem and the pu shouldn't be used.Is using this PU a bannable offense i doubt it but im a bit new can an admin respond to this?
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KnaveSkye
- Staff Sergeant
- Posts: 569
- Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:12 pm
- Location: Chula Vista, CA
- Contact:
No pu ingame is going to get you in trouble for using, but certain ones like the proxy and firerockets can cause lag for everyone and is generally avoided as a point of curteousy. Couple that with the fact those powerups just arnt very good or effective, its a good idea to just avoid em. :D
"Never argue with an idiot, they will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
"When all else fails, use fire"
"When all else fails, use fire"
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Neo2Remember
- Private
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:04 pm
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Amy Infless
- UT2004 Server Admin
- Posts: 1285
- Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:35 pm
- Location: Germany
im to lazy to search for all the links here in forum.
firerockets:
"CAN" cause clientside lag (or maybe gfx-errors) when client(s) has(have) crap (onboard-)gfx-card, like me long time playin with a geforce 4ti 4200 and then ati 9600pro. now with the ati hd2600pro "my personal firerocketlag" is gone! (maybe also driver-problem)
zounds:
"CAN" cause clientside lag (or sound-errors) when client(s) has/have crap (onboard-)soundcard. (maybe driverproblem too)
proxys vs spidermines:
joeyz words: theoretical are proxys and spidermines like bots/humans!
you all know what happens when you play a map which normally allways laags, and more and more players join. so every "information" (what way you go, what direction you fire with what weapon, where do other players shoot at, where do they go, what weps do they use, what way flying/walkin monsters, where do they shoot at with what weapon..you see, "many" information"..) must be handled by everyones connection and everyones cpu (incl. server-cpu). so all these informations are also needed for proxys and spidermines too!!!
spidermines have the advantage the max. amount is 10 you can toss, while proxys can be spammed millions of it. so think about the massive additional information now must be used AND handled "somehow" for these "millions" of proxys. the "somehow" results in slowing down the complete server and all clients and you recognice pings rise up very fast.
as for proxys beeing not effective, depends on situation. if you play with a primary weapon with which you need to "see" the monsters to aim at them, like minis or shocks, and you look out of hidingplace and "booom headshot", proxys can help saving the day using them to spam in last player allive-situations...
bio-spread and flak-razors:
cause massive lag in huge maps. the problem is the long "lifetime" of the many times reflecting and NOT "disapearing" razorblades. i dunno how many seconds a razorblade is "allive" when hitting no enemy. it reflects 2-3-4-5 times (never counted) from walls/pillars/etc and "disapears" after xxx seconds or after finally hitting a monster.
(i personally think, another problem is, after flakrazors are fired and reflected ?-times from whatever, they impact wherever (walls, pillars/grond/etc) and "stay there" for xxx seconds BEFORE they finally disapear! i think if this time can be reduced it will also help!)
so, example, if you fire hundreds of razors in a huge map and they need 5 seconds from your wep till end of map, reflect there come back, another 5 seconds, reflect and so on, when they start to disapear after xxx seconds or xx reflections, how many of them are in the air "on the way" just "carrying much information" which must be sent to everyone(direction, speed etc...)" and is (ab-)using massive cpu-time and/or overloading the "connection"???
(what does this mean? ->http://monstermadness.iforumer.com/view ... termadness)
the same is for biospread. for example if you spreadspam bio in a huge map with superforce, these goo-blobs stay for 2-3-4 seconds till they explode/disapear. if there are many monsters in that "goo-spread-area", it causes massive splash-damage, which cause, dramatically said in joeyz words: "50% of your lag" !!!!
for better understandings read joeys examples:
http://monstermadness.iforumer.com/view ... ness#21653
http://monstermadness.iforumer.com/view ... ness#21898
!!!
if you still dont believe that "bio or flak causes lag", make an easy test.
look for mutators which can increase firerate or create "multiple" shots or spreads. look for a razorblade-mutator like the classic-ut99-razors. enable infinity ammo and increase the firerate up to ... 100-200-500-1000shots per/minute or second, w/e is possible. make a LAN-party or open a server. use a huge map like matrix-alley, for example, try it with 3-xx players. normally it doesnt matter if you play dm or inv. maybe inv is better for the "bad lageffects" coming faster. now fire the razors or bio
and dont stop firing... watch your pings...even in a LAN-game when all players have gigabit-connection and 2-16ping, the pings will go up to 400 and higher! look how you can move or how your screen starts "to work"...
you maybe will get diashow with 0-3 fps... if all stop firing, after xxx seconds (or maybe minutes) it will return to low ping and standard fast movements.
try it.
and now think about you "only" used razors and/or bio. imagine what happens when 1017 monsters are there too, firing every possible wep, and all other players also firing their weps..more or less "laging" weps...
maybe you now see why not to use this or that, or why some "vet" players never ever use razors or toss razor-pu(s) in huge maps to others who ask for them, even when havin 3 of them and a 4. loaded in an unused flak, just to be "a bit more save" from weaponbased lag, and in that case the beginning of disapearing things like pu´s, weaponfire, monsters, players and finally the weapons you use!!
feel free to correct anything if im wrong with something, but im sure you only will find wrong grammatik or wrong translated things :-)
ats
p.s.: for better "translations" or understandings what i talked about, ask zombie (sorry, you are the only one of the "knowers" who is most time online ;-) )
p.p.s.: as for the "ban-thing", sorry we sometimes "must" use this "phrase"
to show we are not jokin/kidding about "problems"...even when you never will be banned for real (except you maybe really piss an admin off ;-) , but remember, the kickvote-option is still there...
firerockets:
"CAN" cause clientside lag (or maybe gfx-errors) when client(s) has(have) crap (onboard-)gfx-card, like me long time playin with a geforce 4ti 4200 and then ati 9600pro. now with the ati hd2600pro "my personal firerocketlag" is gone! (maybe also driver-problem)
zounds:
"CAN" cause clientside lag (or sound-errors) when client(s) has/have crap (onboard-)soundcard. (maybe driverproblem too)
proxys vs spidermines:
joeyz words: theoretical are proxys and spidermines like bots/humans!
you all know what happens when you play a map which normally allways laags, and more and more players join. so every "information" (what way you go, what direction you fire with what weapon, where do other players shoot at, where do they go, what weps do they use, what way flying/walkin monsters, where do they shoot at with what weapon..you see, "many" information"..) must be handled by everyones connection and everyones cpu (incl. server-cpu). so all these informations are also needed for proxys and spidermines too!!!
spidermines have the advantage the max. amount is 10 you can toss, while proxys can be spammed millions of it. so think about the massive additional information now must be used AND handled "somehow" for these "millions" of proxys. the "somehow" results in slowing down the complete server and all clients and you recognice pings rise up very fast.
as for proxys beeing not effective, depends on situation. if you play with a primary weapon with which you need to "see" the monsters to aim at them, like minis or shocks, and you look out of hidingplace and "booom headshot", proxys can help saving the day using them to spam in last player allive-situations...
bio-spread and flak-razors:
cause massive lag in huge maps. the problem is the long "lifetime" of the many times reflecting and NOT "disapearing" razorblades. i dunno how many seconds a razorblade is "allive" when hitting no enemy. it reflects 2-3-4-5 times (never counted) from walls/pillars/etc and "disapears" after xxx seconds or after finally hitting a monster.
(i personally think, another problem is, after flakrazors are fired and reflected ?-times from whatever, they impact wherever (walls, pillars/grond/etc) and "stay there" for xxx seconds BEFORE they finally disapear! i think if this time can be reduced it will also help!)
so, example, if you fire hundreds of razors in a huge map and they need 5 seconds from your wep till end of map, reflect there come back, another 5 seconds, reflect and so on, when they start to disapear after xxx seconds or xx reflections, how many of them are in the air "on the way" just "carrying much information" which must be sent to everyone(direction, speed etc...)" and is (ab-)using massive cpu-time and/or overloading the "connection"???
(what does this mean? ->http://monstermadness.iforumer.com/view ... termadness)
the same is for biospread. for example if you spreadspam bio in a huge map with superforce, these goo-blobs stay for 2-3-4 seconds till they explode/disapear. if there are many monsters in that "goo-spread-area", it causes massive splash-damage, which cause, dramatically said in joeyz words: "50% of your lag" !!!!
for better understandings read joeys examples:
http://monstermadness.iforumer.com/view ... ness#21653
http://monstermadness.iforumer.com/view ... ness#21898
!!!
if you still dont believe that "bio or flak causes lag", make an easy test.
look for mutators which can increase firerate or create "multiple" shots or spreads. look for a razorblade-mutator like the classic-ut99-razors. enable infinity ammo and increase the firerate up to ... 100-200-500-1000shots per/minute or second, w/e is possible. make a LAN-party or open a server. use a huge map like matrix-alley, for example, try it with 3-xx players. normally it doesnt matter if you play dm or inv. maybe inv is better for the "bad lageffects" coming faster. now fire the razors or bio
and dont stop firing... watch your pings...even in a LAN-game when all players have gigabit-connection and 2-16ping, the pings will go up to 400 and higher! look how you can move or how your screen starts "to work"...
you maybe will get diashow with 0-3 fps... if all stop firing, after xxx seconds (or maybe minutes) it will return to low ping and standard fast movements.
try it.
and now think about you "only" used razors and/or bio. imagine what happens when 1017 monsters are there too, firing every possible wep, and all other players also firing their weps..more or less "laging" weps...
maybe you now see why not to use this or that, or why some "vet" players never ever use razors or toss razor-pu(s) in huge maps to others who ask for them, even when havin 3 of them and a 4. loaded in an unused flak, just to be "a bit more save" from weaponbased lag, and in that case the beginning of disapearing things like pu´s, weaponfire, monsters, players and finally the weapons you use!!
feel free to correct anything if im wrong with something, but im sure you only will find wrong grammatik or wrong translated things :-)
ats
p.s.: for better "translations" or understandings what i talked about, ask zombie (sorry, you are the only one of the "knowers" who is most time online ;-) )
p.p.s.: as for the "ban-thing", sorry we sometimes "must" use this "phrase"
to show we are not jokin/kidding about "problems"...even when you never will be banned for real (except you maybe really piss an admin off ;-) , but remember, the kickvote-option is still there...
Do not try kill THIS bug !!! ->
Your monitor may not like it...
Those who correct my English will be shot! Survivors will be shot again!
Your monitor may not like it...Those who correct my English will be shot! Survivors will be shot again!
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ZombieSlayer
- Second Lieutenant
- Posts: 2077
- Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:41 pm
... i mean the chat-voice ...the proxy mines *talk-sound* is normal , the titan and the other monster make sounds too ....wepfire sounds .... its all normal sounds .... zounds too !
...but the chatvoice is extra ...
for amy:
ich kanns einfach nicht in englisch ausdrücken aber mich regt es einfach auf das alle sich über sounds beschweren, das voice aber dabei völlig unbehelligt bleibt, obwohl es ein extra datenstrom ist der für den server und für jeden eine extra belastung darstellt und gerade dadurch ebenfalls lags produzieren kann. sämtliche sounds der monster lädt man mit indem man auf den server geht. mit anderen worten der server gibt lediglich einen impuls dafür das das oder das gespielt wird und zwar vom eigenen rechner, es wird dabei der sound nicht extra nochmal neu übertragen wie beim voice. lediglich bei langsamen rechner kann das probleme geben, wobei ut2004 ja schon älter ist und ansich ja beweiten nicht so viele ressourcen benötigt wie ut3 z.b.
und auch wenn es viele nicht wahrhaben wollen, auch wenn ein titan einfach nur sein geräusch abgibt, dann is das ein sound und den kann man dem wohl schlecht verbieten. ein zound kann lediglich nervig sein aber er frisst genausoviel ressourcen wie eine rülpsende proxymine. ^^
proxymines machen also nichts anderes als spam.
ich hab selber mit den dingern rumgetestet auf einem eigenen server und so viele wie dafür nötig sind damit der server echte probleme bekommt sind bei madness nicht möglich. und da müssten dann auch mehrere das benutzen und wie wild die dinger verteilen.
und allgemein kann man auf dem server niemand verbieten etwas zu benutzen was da ist, dann darf es erst gar nicht möglich sein und muss eben rausgenommen werden.
ich hab mit chaos ut waffen lange rumgetestet und viele davon produzieren fehler. die waffen bzw die pus auf dem server basieren zum teil auf einigen. die proxymines stammen ja ebenfalls davon, aber die waren eher harmlos wie gesagt nur in extrem großer zahl produzierten sie serverabstürze. letztens hab ich sie auch mal benutzt auf einer größeren map und nix ruckelte oder laggte.
genauso die sache mit den eigenen skins. die wenigsten skins haben ein extravoicepack. ich kenne da auf anhieb blos die dinger von mars attacks, aber das gibts ja auf dem server. ansonsten behandelt der server unbekannte skins einfach wie als gäbe es sie nicht, es gibt da absolut null belastung, wie auch... der skin wird ja nicht an den server übertragen und auch nicht an andere.
sorry for german post , my english is to bad for it
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ZombieSlayer
- Second Lieutenant
- Posts: 2077
- Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:41 pm
No pu makes chat voice, nor do the monsters.
All monster sounds are included in the files you download, and therefore can not cause lag due to UT's engine searching your computer for them.
Voice packs cause lag because UT's engine searches all of your hard drive to find the voice pack if you do not have it installed already. It does this search everytime a custom voice pack taunt is used.
Skins don't cause lag because after UT searches for the skin once, if it's not found it "nulls" it and sets it to default. If it did this with voice packs they wouldn't cause so much lag.
Proxy mines cause lag when the server is full and someone is spamming them because each mine is a "bot" and therefore processes all of the crap the monsters do (ie friendly fire damage, enemy damage, enemy location, targeting, moving, re-targeting if target is dead before it gets there, etc etc).
Spider mines act this way too, but since they are limited in # they don't cause lag.
All monster sounds are included in the files you download, and therefore can not cause lag due to UT's engine searching your computer for them.
Voice packs cause lag because UT's engine searches all of your hard drive to find the voice pack if you do not have it installed already. It does this search everytime a custom voice pack taunt is used.
Skins don't cause lag because after UT searches for the skin once, if it's not found it "nulls" it and sets it to default. If it did this with voice packs they wouldn't cause so much lag.
Proxy mines cause lag when the server is full and someone is spamming them because each mine is a "bot" and therefore processes all of the crap the monsters do (ie friendly fire damage, enemy damage, enemy location, targeting, moving, re-targeting if target is dead before it gets there, etc etc).
Spider mines act this way too, but since they are limited in # they don't cause lag.
If you lost your cd and have the old drive and have not reinstalled UT2004 or reformatted the drive, you can find your old cd key in the registry here ...
My Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Unreal Technologies\Installed Apps\UT2004
My Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Unreal Technologies\Installed Apps\UT2004